Hey,
dies ist mein erster Beitrag hier, also erstmal, hallo :).
ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob es dieses thema schon gibt. Da ich keins gefunden habe, mache ich einfach mal eins auf.
Da ich einen Punkt des ALF credos (Any group of people who are vegetarians or vegans and who carry out actions according to ALF guidelines have the right to regard themselves as part of the ALF. ) etwas kritisch sehe, weil dort VegetarierInnen mit VeganerInnen gleichgesetzt werden, habe ich an die angegebene email adresse geschrieben.
Ich häng einfach mal den "briefwechsel" und wünsche mir ein paar Kommentare dazu.
________________
Ich:
Hey,
i am actually having a problem with one part of your guidelines, which says that "any group of people who are vegetarians or vegans and who carry out actions according to ALF guidelines have the right to regard themselves as part of the ALF. "
I do not think, that "vegetarians" can ever be seen as animal rights activists, as they still consume animal products like chicken eggs and milk of cows and therefore accept, that animals, like male chicks and calves, are being murderes for their luxury. In mentioning vegetarians next to vegans, you deny the difference and support the thought of most of the vegetarians, that they in deed act "animal friendly".
In my opinion it's necessary to get all vegetarians out of this lethargy and show them what to do to really support the fights for animal right: becoming VEGAN at first.
How can people, who still support animal exploitation with their consumption, honestly fight for animal rights?? Its like as if a child abuser participates in actions against child abuse, which is absolutely non-sense.
Best vegan greetings!
Tinka
_______________
ALF:
Tinka,
We agree with you. Here are two comments:
1. The ALF credo was written three decades ago, and since the ALF is a leaderless organization nobody has the authority to change it officially.
2. If I was to change it today it should say "freegan". Vegan is not good enough. Almost all consumer products, even if they do not contain animal by-products, are manufactured and packaged and shipped using animal by-products. Additionally, anyone who purchases anything instead of donating money to help animals is not doing all they can.
Freeganism, like veganism, does not require perfection only awareness of what one is doing and a conscious effort to be better. Vegans often come up short.
Too many people draw a line of morality just below their own actions and mock those above and below the line. They are not good people.
Sincerely,
Ann Berlin
________________
Ich:
Thanks for your quick answer!
I understand that as there is no leader, nobody can logically have the
authority to change something. But time is changing and therefore
sometimes changes have to be made so that the ALF can still be as
effective and up tp date. I duno how it is elsewhere, but in Germany i
heard many people saying they can not support the ALF anymore, if they
are in cohorts with vegetarians. And as i think that the ALF is a very
important, global connectionpoint for direct and autonomic acton it
would be sad if they become less important because of reasons like this.
I partly agree with you about freeganism. I myself think that
containering is ecologically seen a very necessary method regarding all
the wasted food. We are also containering a lot in Hamburg, but still
call ourselves vegans and not freegans as we are also partly buying food
from shops.
Of course living freegan is even more consequent than just being vegan,
but i still think that, back to the ALF, one can accept that the
activists are AT LEAST vegans (everyone should of course have the will,
with critical self-reflection of the own action, to do better).
How should organisation work if nobody has the authority to do anything?
Isnt it better to be able to - in a critical discourse - change
outmoded points in order to save the morality on which the ALF should be
based on?
Best greetings
Tinka
_______________
ALF:
Tinka,
Currently there are not enough vegans willing to rescue animals, which is what we do. Until there are enough vegans we will count on the help of vegetarians. In fact the requirements to consider oneself ALF don't prohibit any specific personal characteristic. If someone is willing to save a life should we tell them to let the animal continue to be abused until you change your diet? Not today. In the future we hope to have such a luxury.
Ironically, there are many prominent vegans (Francione, Lee Hall, and more) and their followers who are against ALF actions that destroy property. In our opinion this the height of speciesism because the same folks would approve of property damage if it were humans being abused.
Sincerely,
Ann
________________________
Ich kann die Argumentation von "Ann" zwar verstehen, besonders, dass im grunde niemand daran gehindert werden kann, eine Tierbefreiung durchzuführen, auch wenn er Eierfresser ist, allerdings finde ich, dass dadurch vergessen wird, welches Leid auch Vegetarier den Tieren mit ihren Konsumgewohnheiten zufügen. Ich bin der meinung, die ALF sollte sich davon distanzieren können. Vegetarier können ja meinetwegen trotzdem Tiere befreien, aber eben nicht im Namen der ALF.
Was denkt ihr?
grüße
Tinka
dies ist mein erster Beitrag hier, also erstmal, hallo :).
ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob es dieses thema schon gibt. Da ich keins gefunden habe, mache ich einfach mal eins auf.
Da ich einen Punkt des ALF credos (Any group of people who are vegetarians or vegans and who carry out actions according to ALF guidelines have the right to regard themselves as part of the ALF. ) etwas kritisch sehe, weil dort VegetarierInnen mit VeganerInnen gleichgesetzt werden, habe ich an die angegebene email adresse geschrieben.
Ich häng einfach mal den "briefwechsel" und wünsche mir ein paar Kommentare dazu.
________________
Ich:
Hey,
i am actually having a problem with one part of your guidelines, which says that "any group of people who are vegetarians or vegans and who carry out actions according to ALF guidelines have the right to regard themselves as part of the ALF. "
I do not think, that "vegetarians" can ever be seen as animal rights activists, as they still consume animal products like chicken eggs and milk of cows and therefore accept, that animals, like male chicks and calves, are being murderes for their luxury. In mentioning vegetarians next to vegans, you deny the difference and support the thought of most of the vegetarians, that they in deed act "animal friendly".
In my opinion it's necessary to get all vegetarians out of this lethargy and show them what to do to really support the fights for animal right: becoming VEGAN at first.
How can people, who still support animal exploitation with their consumption, honestly fight for animal rights?? Its like as if a child abuser participates in actions against child abuse, which is absolutely non-sense.
Best vegan greetings!
Tinka
_______________
ALF:
Tinka,
We agree with you. Here are two comments:
1. The ALF credo was written three decades ago, and since the ALF is a leaderless organization nobody has the authority to change it officially.
2. If I was to change it today it should say "freegan". Vegan is not good enough. Almost all consumer products, even if they do not contain animal by-products, are manufactured and packaged and shipped using animal by-products. Additionally, anyone who purchases anything instead of donating money to help animals is not doing all they can.
Freeganism, like veganism, does not require perfection only awareness of what one is doing and a conscious effort to be better. Vegans often come up short.
Too many people draw a line of morality just below their own actions and mock those above and below the line. They are not good people.
Sincerely,
Ann Berlin
________________
Ich:
Thanks for your quick answer!
I understand that as there is no leader, nobody can logically have the
authority to change something. But time is changing and therefore
sometimes changes have to be made so that the ALF can still be as
effective and up tp date. I duno how it is elsewhere, but in Germany i
heard many people saying they can not support the ALF anymore, if they
are in cohorts with vegetarians. And as i think that the ALF is a very
important, global connectionpoint for direct and autonomic acton it
would be sad if they become less important because of reasons like this.
I partly agree with you about freeganism. I myself think that
containering is ecologically seen a very necessary method regarding all
the wasted food. We are also containering a lot in Hamburg, but still
call ourselves vegans and not freegans as we are also partly buying food
from shops.
Of course living freegan is even more consequent than just being vegan,
but i still think that, back to the ALF, one can accept that the
activists are AT LEAST vegans (everyone should of course have the will,
with critical self-reflection of the own action, to do better).
How should organisation work if nobody has the authority to do anything?
Isnt it better to be able to - in a critical discourse - change
outmoded points in order to save the morality on which the ALF should be
based on?
Best greetings
Tinka
_______________
ALF:
Tinka,
Currently there are not enough vegans willing to rescue animals, which is what we do. Until there are enough vegans we will count on the help of vegetarians. In fact the requirements to consider oneself ALF don't prohibit any specific personal characteristic. If someone is willing to save a life should we tell them to let the animal continue to be abused until you change your diet? Not today. In the future we hope to have such a luxury.
Ironically, there are many prominent vegans (Francione, Lee Hall, and more) and their followers who are against ALF actions that destroy property. In our opinion this the height of speciesism because the same folks would approve of property damage if it were humans being abused.
Sincerely,
Ann
________________________
Ich kann die Argumentation von "Ann" zwar verstehen, besonders, dass im grunde niemand daran gehindert werden kann, eine Tierbefreiung durchzuführen, auch wenn er Eierfresser ist, allerdings finde ich, dass dadurch vergessen wird, welches Leid auch Vegetarier den Tieren mit ihren Konsumgewohnheiten zufügen. Ich bin der meinung, die ALF sollte sich davon distanzieren können. Vegetarier können ja meinetwegen trotzdem Tiere befreien, aber eben nicht im Namen der ALF.
Was denkt ihr?
grüße
Tinka