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Vegane Kinder:
[Erziehung] Homeschooling?

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[Erziehung] Homeschooling?

Autor: Tanja | Datum:
Hallo,
war diese Woche auf einem Vortrag ├╝ber Homeschooling; nicht, weil ich das bisher ernsthaft als Alternative zur herk├Âmmlichen Schule gesehen habe sondern eher, weil ich nur Negatives dar├╝ber wu├čte und mir dachte, es k├Ânne ja nicht schaden, seinen Horizont etwas zu erweitern und sich n├Ąher damit zu befassen. ;-)
Ich habe (leider nicht durch den Vortrag sondern durch die Diskussion mit einer Mutter, die das f├╝r ihre beiden Kinder anstrebt) nun auch ein paar positive Aspekte kennengelernt:
- ein Kind, was nicht im Klassenverband unterrichtet wird, steht nicht unter dem Druck, mit der Masse mithalten (oder mitbummeln) zu m├╝ssen sondern kann sein eigenes Lerntempo finden
- es lernt, sich Dinge selbst zu erarbeiten und Wissen selbst anzueignen
- Lernen ist nicht an starre Vorgaben wie Unterrichtszeiten/Stundenplan gekoppelt sondern kann so stattfinden, wie das Kind damit zurechtkommt
- Gewalt und Drogen sind (zumindest in der Regel) zuhause weniger ein Problem als in der Schule, auch Mobbing (unter dem ja immer mehr Kinder in der Schule zu leiden haben) f├Ąllt hiermit weg
- der Wettbewerb in der Gruppe findet nicht statt und somit entsteht auch kein so gro├čer Leistungsdruck

Hoffe, da├č das nun alles war, was mir dazu eingefallen ist.
Allerdings gibt es auch einige negative Aspekte bzw. Gr├╝nde f├╝r Schule au├čer Haus, die m.E. schwerer wiegen:

- Lernen macht, wie viele andere Dinge auch, in der Gruppe sehr viel mehr Spa├č
- das Kind hat problemlos soziale Kontakte in der Schule, kann Verhalten innerhalb einer Gruppe besser erlernen
- das Kind lernt an der Schule verschiedene Seiten der Welt kennen durch den Kontakt zu Kindern und auch Erwachsenen, mit denen es so vielleicht nicht zusammentr├Ąfe (Bekannten- und Freundeskreis einer Familie k├Ânnen das kaum abdecken) und kann so wahrscheinlich letztendlich kritischer werden
- beim Homeschooling besteht wohl immer die Gefahr, da├č ein Kind von den Eltern eher in eine Richtung (sei es fachlich, religi├Âs oder was auch immer) gedr├╝ckt wird, in die es so nicht gehen w├╝rde
- letztendlich bekommt eine Familie, die ihre Kinder nicht zur Schule schickt, in deutschland enorme Schwierigkeiten mit Beh├Ârden und der Justiz, die gesellschaftlichen Probleme, die sich daraus ergeben, gehen mit Sicherheit auch an den Kindern nicht spurlos vor├╝ber

Als Grund f├╝r Homeschooling wurde bei dem Vortag u.a. auch noch das Problem der "Gleichaltrigenorientierung" (es sei nicht normal, da├č Kinder gleichen Alters so zusammenseien, die Familie m├╝sse der Hauptaufenthaltsort f├╝r ein Kind sein) genannt, was mir absolut schleierhaft ist. Schlie├člich finden sich Kinder gleichen Alters bzw.gleicher Entwicklungsstufen immer und ├╝berall zusammen, um miteinander zu spielen und eine Familie sollte m.E. eine so starke Basis sein, da├č Gruppenzwang nicht zum Problem werden sollte.

Weitere, christliche/theistische Gr├╝nde, will ich hier nicht diskutieren, weil ich denke, da├č die Angst vor "Zwangssexualisierung" durch Aufkl├Ąrungsunterricht oder vor "atheistischer Indoktrination" (sch├Ân w├Ąr's,wenn Schulen sich etwas mehr dem Atheismus zuwenden w├╝rden ;-)) nun wahrlich ins Reich der Fundis geh├Âren und nichts sind, was man wirklich seri├Âs ber├╝cksichtigen m├╝├čte. ;-)

Kennt denn jemand Familien, die Homeschooling machen? Oder tr├Ągt sich selbst mit dem Gedanken? W├╝rde mich schon sehr interessieren, wie man dazu kommt.

Tanja

[Erziehung] Re: Homeschooling?

Autor: Wanda | Datum:
Hi,

I'm sorry I'm answering in English. I can understand a lot of German, but speak it horribly.

I'm homeschooling one of my two children.
I give my children a choice and my daughter prefered school this year.
My son prefers to homeschool and I belief that he thrives a lot better at home than he would in a school environment. He is very intelligent, but likes to learn things in different ways than the structured school system.
He's 5 and can already read and write in 2 languages and is several years ahead with math.

The reason I'm answering to this message is because I'm very curious about the homeschooling climat in European countries like Germany.
Especially since we're considering maybe going back to Europe for a period fo time.
Here in America there are a lot of resources for homeschoolers.
Once a month we get together with a group of homeschooling families and play and do projects together.
My son is also a part of a homeschooling gym and a homeschooling swim class.
Does anything like that exist in Germany?
Are there homeschooling groups that get together?
Are there special gym/swim classes during the day for homeschoolers?
And how are homeschoolers regarded in general? Both by other people and the government?

I would love it if someone could answer my questions.

[Erziehung] Re: Homeschooling?

Autor: Achim St├Â├čer | Datum:
> The reason I'm answering to this message is because I'm very
> curious about the homeschooling climat in European countries
> like Germany.

Deutschland ist eines der beiden europ├Ąischen L├Ąnder (habe vergessen, welches das andere ist), in denen Homeschooling verboten ist.

> Here in America there are a lot of resources for homeschoolers.
> Once a month we get together with a group of homeschooling
> families and play and do projects together.
> My son is also a part of a homeschooling gym and a
> homeschooling swim class.
> Does anything like that exist in Germany?

Nein, da's illegal ist ...

> And how are homeschoolers regarded in general? Both by other
> people and the government?

Also was die Regierung betrifft, ist der Standpunkt angesichts der Rechtslage klar ;-) .

Die meisten anderen Leute haben vermutlich noch nie davon geh├Ârt, und wenn, dann im Zusammenhang mit irgendwelchen religi├Âsen Spinnern, die etwas gegen Sexualkundeunterricht und Evolutionstherie haben.

Grade vor ein paar Tagen gab es in einem Fernsehmagazin einen Bericht dazu: http://maqi.de/tv/?id=14561.

Neben den Christen wurde aber auch ├╝ber eine Familie berichtet, die wie Du eben ihren beiden S├Âhnen die Wahl l├Ą├čt.

Wie sieht das denn bei Euch - z.B. in den Homeschooling-Gruppen, die Du genant hast - aus mit der Motivation der Leute? In den USA ist Kreationismus ja ziemlich verbreitet ... Grade bei Leuten, die nicht alle Tassen im Schrank haben (hm, was hei├čt das auf Englisch, don't have all their marbles oder so) sollten die Kinder ja vor ihren Eltern besch├╝tz werden, die ihnen mit dem Homeschooling das ganze Leben ruinieren ...

Achim

[Erziehung] Re: Homeschooling?

Autor: Wanda | Datum:
I think I understood most of your message.

There are definitely people here in America too who homeschool because they don't want their children exposed to different ideas. This is especially true for some Christian groups.
The homeschooling group I personally go to is not affiliated with any religion.

I hadn't necessarily planned on being a homeschooling parent. And I was definitely worried about homeschooling myself.
I absolutely don't want to destroy my kids futures! I want to raise them to be level headed, strong, opiniated people with all the choices they could want to have.
A friend of mine homeschooled, so I started going to the homeschooling meetings.
What really amazed me was how extremely put together the teenagers were. They had been homeschooled their entire lives and were just wonderful, great kids and going to college.
What also struck me was the difference I noticed in the interaction of homeschooling children compared to schooled children.
My kids took karate classes at our neighborhood school and gym classes with the homeschoolers. I noticed how the homeschooling kids were so much more into team play. They really made sure no kid was excluded and played so wonderfully together.

Seeing how the homeschooled teenagers turned out and how the homeschooled children interacted helped put my mind at ease about homeschooling.

I definitely don't think homeschooling parents are just weirdo people who are destroying their childrens future.
But I had to be involved in homeschooling groups myself to realize this.
I had my doubts too.

What's most important in both schooling and homeschooling I feel is a nice, loving home where a child is nurtured.
I do believe that both systems can work well for children.
I find it a real shame that it's forbidden in Germany.
It's sad that a government can decide that children can't be educated by their own parents (and their support group).

[Erziehung] Re: Homeschooling?

Autor: Achim St├Â├čer | Datum:
> I think I understood most of your message.

All right, to prevent misconceptions I'll try it in English this time ;-) .

> I absolutely don't want to destroy my kids futures! I want to

I thought so ;-) ... this just referred to those bible-thumpers who keep their children away from reality.

> classes with the homeschoolers. I noticed how the homeschooling
> kids were so much more into team play. They really made sure no

Which sure won't hold for the children of those Xian nerds who prevent any contact with other kids (outside their moronic faith system).

> I definitely don't think homeschooling parents are just weirdo
> people who are destroying their childrens future.

The second family in the tv report mentioned above, too, like you, just wanted to let their sons decide themselves whether they want to attend school or not.

As I said this just seems to be a problem related to creationists, flat-earthers and such ...

Although I'm not sure if all other homeschooling parents do have the abilities to educate their kids. On the other hand the same holds for most professional teachers, too ;-) .

> What's most important in both schooling and homeschooling I
> feel is a nice, loving home where a child is nurtured.

Agreed.

> I do believe that both systems can work well for children.

As long as their is a controlling system to make sure that homeschooled children are not brain-washed into some weird cult (like Xianity) and lack social skill because of their isolation. Is there such a system in the US (having in mind the fact that the president of the US of A also believes that his silly god molded man from clay and dinosaurs died in the Flood some thousand years ago)?

> It's sad that a government can decide that children can't be
> educated by their own parents (and their support group).

Yes, on the other hand it's also sad that parents can "educate" their children to think that their make-believe gods are real.

Achim

[Erziehung] Re: Homeschooling?

Autor: Wanda | Datum:
Thanks for switching to English Achim. That makes it a lot easier for me.

Since homeschooling isn't really done in European countries, I belief that the only people who do homeschool are usually probably the type of people you describe.

Here in America you have a healthy homeschooling climat where until now I've only met 'normal' people homeschooling their kids.

> Although I'm not sure if all other homeschooling parents do have the abilities to educate their kids. On the other hand the same holds for most professional teachers, too ;-) .
There are a lot of good homeschooling book systems available and I know homeschooler families like to hang out at libraries, museums and go on excursions with their kids.
The homeschooling families I know all seem to be very committed to their children and definitely want the best for them, which was the reason they started homeschooling.
I personally feel I could teach my son everything he needs to know. (I was that kid who always was best in class.)

>As long as their is a controlling system to make sure that homeschooled children are not brain-washed into some weird cult (like Xianity) and lack social skill because of their isolation. Is there such a system in the US (having in mind the fact that the president of the US of A also believes that his silly god molded man from clay and dinosaurs died in the Flood some thousand years ago)?

Their are different rules per State. Some states give homeschooling parents more freedom than other States.
In Wisconsin (where I live) you only need to register your child as a homeschooler. There are other states where children actually are given tests now and then.

> Yes, on the other hand it's also sad that parents can "educate" their children to think that their make-believe gods are real.

I agree that that is really sad. But the question is, how much are we allowed to interfere with how other families raise their children?
Regardless of whether children go to school or not, parents can completely mess them up anyway if they want to.
I'm sure you must have come across some messed up school kids.
One thing that really bothers me about how most children are parented is that they spend hours in front of the television where they watch violent television shows (and violent children's cartoons!) and play violent video games.
Most parents are just happy when their kids entertain themselves and don't care what they do. Even though they hardly get to see their children all day (because they're at school), they still don't spend much quality time with them outside of school.
The nice thing about the homeschooling families I know is that they are really involved into their children's lives.

[Erziehung] Re: Homeschooling?

Autor: Wanda | Datum:
I would also like to add that a really great advantage of homeschooling over schooling is the individual attention you can give your child.
You can go at the speed of your child. Somethings s/he will pick up fast, some things slower. You can also go with your child's interest at a certain time.
My child currently is fascinated by how humans came into existence for instance. So we're going to dive into that subject (library/internet).
It's basically like having a private tutor who also happens to be the person that loves the child most (= the parent).

[Erziehung] Re: Homeschooling?

Autor: Tanja | Datum:
Hallo Wanda,
vielen Dank f├╝r Deine Postings; Du hast sehr gut erkl├Ąrt, warum Du Homeschooling gut findest und da├č das durchaus eine Alternative zum normalen Schulbesuch sein kann.
(Bitte entschuldige, da├č ich auf deutsch antworte, aber mir fiele es eher schwer, mich auf Englisch verst├Ąndlich auszudr├╝cken ;-)).
Ich denke auch, da├č der Staat nicht einfach bestimmen darf, wo und wie Kinder lernen; gleichzeitig gebe ich Achim recht, da├č Homeschooling trotzdem kontrolliert erfolgen sollte um sicherzustellen, da├č Kinder nicht von ihren Eltern weggesperrt werden.
In Deutschland starb vor 2 Jahren ein M├Ądchen, was von seinen Eltern eingesperrt und mi├čhandelt worden war. Es h├Ątte bereits zur Schule gehen m├╝ssen, aber weil die zust├Ąndigen ├ämter nicht nachforschten, warum es nicht zur Schule ging, starb das M├Ądchen unbemerkt (dies sind aber wohl auch die ├ängste der Menschen in Deutschland vor Homeschooling: da├č keine Kontrolle mehr erfolgen kann. Ich mu├č aber zugeben, da├č viele Deutsche regelrecht s├╝chtig zu sein scheinen nach Kontrolle. ;-/)
Unser Sohn ist erst 8 Monate alt aber ich ├╝berlege jetzt schon, wo er mal zur Schule gehen soll weil ich eigentlich nicht m├Âchte, da├č er eine normale staatliche Schule besuchen mu├č...

Liebe Gr├╝├če,
Tanja

PS: Ich wu├čte gar nicht, es sogar extra Freizeitangebote f├╝r Homeschooling-Kinder gibt in den USA. Wieder was gelernt. ;-)

[Erziehung] Re: Homeschooling?

Autor: Wanda | Datum:
I understand that people are afraid of homeschooling, because they feel they will loose some control in being able to have some sort of influence in the lives of children who are abused by their parents.

What I think is really important to understand is that school does NOT stop parents from abusing their children!
Children can still get completely messed up by their parents while going to school.

The only thing I feel can help is that people will become more connected with their neighborhoods again.
Then neighbors can do something when they realize a child is being abused by his/her parents (regardless of whether the child is homeschooled or schooled).

I also learned something Tanja. :)
I didn't know homeschooling is actually forbidden in Germany.
I guess we're not moving to Germany...

[Erziehung] Re: Homeschooling?

Autor: Tanja | Datum:
Hi Wanda,
ja, wir sind schon Idealisten hier ;-), aber Du hast recht: weniger Kontrolle und daf├╝r wieder mehr aufeinander achten (= just care about your neighbours and what they do) w├Ąre wohl das allerbeste.
Aber frage doch mal irgendwo nach, ob das Homeschoolingverbot in Deutschland auch f├╝r Nicht-Deutsche gilt, das wei├č ich n├Ąmlich nicht. Vielleicht mu├č man nur als deutsches Kind in Deutschland zur Schule gehen? ;-)

LG
Tanja

Re: [Erziehung] Homeschooling?

Autor: L├║thien | Datum:
Hallo,

ich habe TV Sendungen und Berichte dar├╝ber auch verfolgt, aus reinem Interesse, weil mir an den meisten Schulsystemen auch nicht alles gef├Ąllt (was wohl auch kaum m├Âglich ist, da jeder andere Pr├Ąferenzen hat).

Allerdings ist meine Meinung: das Leben findet nun mal in der Gemeinschaft statt; das Leben ist ein Konkurrenzkampf, in jeder Hinsicht und es gibt Gut und B├Âse. Je eher ein Kind so etwas lernt, um so besser kann es seine eigene Position finden.

Wichtig ist, dass Eltern ihren Kindern eine ethisch-moralische Basis schaffen und sie zu eigenverantwortlichen Menschen begleiten.

L├║thien

Re: [Erziehung] Homeschooling?

Autor: Red_Tear | Datum:
Hmm... Homeschooling hat durchaus Vorteile.... diese lie├čen sich allerdings auch in staatlichen Schulen verwirklichen wenn man den Bildungsetat mal erh├Âhen w├╝rde... deutlich erh├Âhen....
Aber es ist noch garnicht lang her dass Studiengeb├╝hren eingef├╝hrt wurden da sind an Schulen auch keine Verbesserungen zu erwarten... nat├╝rlich, wenn der Staat seine Schulden tilgen will, muss er nat├╝rlich auf Investitionen in die Zukunft verzichten ;)

Re: [Erziehung] Homeschooling?

Autor: MaryPoppins | Datum:
ich finde elternverwaltete schulen bieten beide vorteile: die eltenr haben viel mitsprache recht, die kinder haben eine soziale gruppe

ich finde es schon sehr wichtig das kinder viel umgang mit andern versch. alten kindern haben - schliesslich haben frauen frher um ein vielfaches mehr kinder gehabt, da isses ja auch ok wenn ein kind fast nur in der familie ist es hat ja genug spielkameraden.

lg